I was conversating the other day with someone about "hope" He made the statement that "It's better to give someone false hope, than no hope at all." I haven't been able to get this thought out of my head and not sure how I feel about it. I was wondering what others feel about this. What are your viewpoints on "hope" or "false hope". And, in general, pertaining to any aspects of life, whether it be love, life/death, loosing something....anything that would knock the sense of being out of you if there were no hope at all....Could you get by on false hope for awhile and deal with it later or would that be a worse situation in the long run?
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Unsu...
Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 11:36 AMfalse hope = deception
Does it really though? And who is the one to be decieved? Is it the one who is giving it or the one who is receiving it? I mean, Can you really or have you ever given someone false hope and something turned around for the better? Do we not believe in miracles or have experienced even minor ones? Who is to say or not to say that in the time when it seemed that no hope was to be found that a distrubution of false hope didn't or couldn't have made a difference at the moment, saving one for some sort of huge destruction. Or maybe false hope was necessary in the moment of time to inniate a bigger and better meaning to another area in life later on down the line....Haven't you ever given someone hope when you didn't even know yourself if hope was to be found or was determined that it was hopeless yourself, only to be decieved yourself? -
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Unsu...
Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 11:40 AMI see it this way. When exactly does it become "False Hope"? It's up to the recipient to claim what is what, right? If you don't take what the person is saying to you as literal or serious then you're not recieving it either way. You're blowing it all off. It therefore becomes useless information. -
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Unsu...
Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 11:42 AMAnd the best way to live is to let go of all expectations. Take it from someone who's been promised the sun, moon, and stars by numerous people only to be let down. I live by the words "Seeing is believing" -
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 11:43 AMit dont mean nuthin til you sign it on the dotted line -
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Unsu...
Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 12:14 PMit dont mean nuthin til you sign it on the dotted line
So are you saying that false hope is ok or still think it's a matter of deception till the final signature?
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Unsu...
Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 12:50 PMGreat points A/S...I think sometimes giving someone hope is none but a speck of encouragment. I think we know in our hearts what the truth is...sometimes it's hard to accept it though. On the other hand, I have been convinced once or twice by doubt, only to find that the truth was entirely different than what I percieved it to be. In this case, there was hope when it didn't seem like it at the time. -
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 12:52 PMWhen I hear the phrase "false hope" , the first word that comes to mind is religion. -
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Unsu...
Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 1:55 PMI hear you Remi, so you mean it would be like a lack of faith to have false hope and faith to have hope? E,ven if someone gave you false hope, to have faith is to know the difference?
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 7:25 AMJust remember the Blue Hope Dimond... It never saved anyone
Lil Hope, Some Faith.... and alot of Love -
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 7:41 AMI wouldnt like to have a false hope about anything. The truth will be revelved at some point, so why fool my self.
Maybe in some point it is hard to face the truth, specialy when someone is dieing in front of you, but …at that point, even if someone is giving me a hope, when its pointless, i can feel they are just saying it,
So why bother with such hope ,when you know its not true
I do like to face the truth, it may brake your heart, but as sooner you know, sooner you can start to rapair yourself, you can built strenght from intense pain too -
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 28, 2008 - 9:01 AMi agree with you, Ana i want the truth, and don't bother sugar-coating it
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Unsu...
Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 12:17 PMJust remember the Blue Hope Dimond... It never saved anyone
Lil Hope, Some Faith.... and alot of Love
Great example Allan...:) -
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:26 PMFalse hope has a purpose, a very important purpose. It helps those who know they are going to die, to face the inevitable with grace. The five months it took my partner to die, was hard enouph as it was, false hope gave us moments to lauph and hold each others hand, and pretend that it would all work out. Its deception, of the most essential nature, so that you do not just .....give up, and die with no 'shine'. He shown like a star on his way to the other place. -
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:26 PMsorry, the anniversary for that is coming up, so i get morbid. -
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:39 PM> that is coming up, so i get morbid
thanks for sharing, life can be tough. sometimes we need to do the unthinkable
yes, false hope sucks, but, at times is better than none at all
better die fighting with false hope than to stay crying and drowning on waters of self pity and hopelessness -
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:46 PMdamn right. he was a warrior and chango liked him, and obatala was his father, so he went with strength and clarity of spirit. the largest thunderstorm broke that afternoon. i have lost lots of my hearing, because the bolts were 10 feet from the front porch. my body was a close as it could get, and not get fried. -
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 4:48 PMChango is close to InI, so is Obatala
yo soy Boricua -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 5:40 PMTravis ... i knew i see ya before, it was in another tribe
Salamalecun
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 8:59 PMFalse hope is just what it is, false. Why give someone (no matter the intention) a sense of false hope that's only going to leave them in a worse way than before? Here's a simple example....a child waits up every Christmas eve in hope of catching Santa because the kid believes in him so much. Only to cruelly discover at an older age that Santa doesn't physically exist. It's a huge let down and can be very damaging.
As a personal example....my father left us when I was very young. He would call every week and tell me that he promised he would come home for good that Sunday. Every Sunday I waited with a hopeful heart by the front window for him to come home. But he never came, not once, ever. Gradually, I lost all hope of ever seeing him again. He never had any intention of coming back.
False Hope hurts because nothing good ever comes of it. At least not for me. -
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 9:01 PMthank u munk for conveying this to these confused women
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:14 PMI think things need to be put into context. Lying to a kid is not what i suggested.
At times we encounter situations that do not seem to have a way out. One can sit and cry, or one can try to visualize a different reality.
I been separated from my child, the love of my life, i might see her again, i might not. That's a fact Jack.
However, I try to stay positive, and even do i can not assure her that she will see me as much as we both would like, i need to offer some hope to both of us. I can not assure her or me that the time will come when we can be together again, as we where. But i sure HOPE, that even if it seem impossible now, somehow things could work out where we come into a different reality from what we see now and become united again.
Im not into lying, but i rather offer some hope than fixate myself in failure. Who knows, even in dying there could be victory, especially if one does not die like a wimp.
Hope is the wind that fills my sails. Hope for a better world, for you and for every one.
But thats my truth, you have your own. -
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:23 PMSomeone choosing to have hope about the outcome of a situation is one thing.
To be strung along, purposely lied to and led to believe that the situation is going to turn out positive by someone else, that's cruel. -
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:57 PMHard situations have a better chance to become positive experiences when one has a positive attitude in the face of of incredible obstacles.
Maybe is that i just don't give up that easy when i have a goal.
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 11:16 PMI dont think you are giving them a false hope, False hope would be if you know for sure you are not going to able to see each other,but you are telling them you will.
If there is a possibility then, there most be hope, than hope does make sense, couse it is possible the things will change to better.
If you belive in positive change, than you are inviting positive enrgy in your life, so what start at first as maybe, could have a good outcome
If there is a possibilty but you strongy say no, because od pesimistic attitude,than is sounds like you could block ,or stop a good thing to happen -
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 7:49 AM
that's what i was trying to say. Lying is wrong, but, we can offer hope even in the most unfortunate situations bc nothing stays the same forever and we are all co-creators of our reality.
If someone is going to die because of know sickness it would be wrong to tell him his body will live, however. people like me (and a few others here) have experienced some realms of the "spirit world", therefore bc _we have experienced_ we can offer hope.
Even if your ego will pass your essence will continue and, even in death, one can find life. -
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 8:15 AMFor me, Lying and Hope are not the same thing, in other words for me, there is no such thing as False Hope.
To tell lies is one thing, but to offer hope (by looking at events in a positive way) even in the most difficult situations one can help. -
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 8:43 AMYes,
but regard the Travis case, i had person in my family dieing of cancer, it lasted long and it was torment for the whole family , i cant even imagine how she must felt, so i want guess there.
But , at that point when they are dieing, and you smile, and tell them they are going to be ok, and you laugh at them…..
I wouldnt call that false hope .Couse deep down you and that person know that death is inevitably
When someone is dieng ,people arond him looks at him as he is dead allready, the teary eyes, sad looks…
And if someone has the strenght and spirit to smile at them, to give them comphort, i think that is the most beautiful thing you cas do for a dieing person at that point
To make them think about something else, other their disease and death
So, they dont have to be so affraid all the time, so they dont feel alone they feel like they are leaving this world with love
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 11:37 PM"Hard situations have a better chance to become positive experiences when one has a positive attitude in the face of of incredible obstacles"
yeah! take that into account, self centered shits. -
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Unsu...
Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 4:32 AMWhen I posted this thread, my intent was not to mean "false hop" in a convenient fantastical way such as Santa Claus. It was the kind of "false hope" that Travis speaks of. ..When someone has nothing left to the point that hope is all there is, whether it be hope or false hope. Travis, thank you for sharing that and I think I know in my heart my answer now. Another question I have for you is...in the profession that your involved in...Do you give your patients this as well...I worked in a nursing home years ago for a short time and it was really sad because some of the patients lived day by day to see members of their famlies and no one ever came. It was a high dollar institution and alot easier to put these people in this place then to care for them at home. The only wish for them was to be visited. We were told that when asked if so and so was coming, to tell the patients that they would be here soon and the smiles would appear but no one ever showed. At first I though it was deceptive and didn't want to participate but in telling these folks that their sons and daughters were coming, left them smiling every day if even for a while...Now, thinking back on this, I think it was the right thing to do...Do you find anything like this in your situation? -
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 12:27 PMBobbi- i work for developmentally disabled folks, so, while some things are the same, there are other bits that are not. For one client, if were to say his mother was going to visit or call, and she did not, he would be deeply affected, and not trust me. But being disabled, he can deal with death and passing in a way that i am not capable. Now, another client - his mother really gets ahold of him very infrequently, and visits him even less - we have never met her. But this man, daily, to have a good day and get thru it, he wants to be told that his mother is going to call soon, even if she never does. If not, he can be violent, moody and uncooperative in all ways. He knows she doesn't call much, but he wants me to reassure him that if she does call, i will bring him the phone. So to your question - i think you did right, some persons need a little bit of hope a day, to just get by, and they want it. In these circumstances, i have also just spent time with a client, talking about what they used to do, when they were home with their family, and we try to re-capitulate the joyous times in their lives. And it does make a huge difference, and above all - some disabled guys do not want to hear the truth, it makes their world too unstable to live. They would rather live in the memory.
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Re: False Hope
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 11:29 PMwell munk, it leads me to beleive you do not read my post with any understanding. hope you don't have someone dye of cancer, so that you are not faced with the same situation. If my intention was not to help him dye with dignity, then i would have been a rude, uncaring and coarse individual to say - yer gonna die, sucker deal with it. My intention was to give him the energy to survive to the end - with grace. but its fuck grace for you, huh? i have nothing more to say to such bullshit. -
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 4:41 AMOn the giving end, giving false hope responsibly is paramount. Before giving any hopes at all false or not, one must think carefully of it's side effects, desired and unexpected outcomes. Give it purposefully not just for the sake of false hope. Hope is a powerful and beautiful thing, we can use it to build someone up or cut someone down.
Also, I like what A/S said about living with no expectations.
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 9:26 AMWhat's with the attitude? I'm only just getting a chance to respond to your posts so just chill out. I was simply sharing my own experiences with 'false hope'. There's a lot of good, caring, merciful kinds of hope out there too. I thought the topic was about false hope so that's whats I posted about. No need to get in snit. -
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 12:18 PMthe anniversary of my husbands death is this month, so i did get in a snit, and don't regret having done so. thats my attitude, and it's mine, and i am free to have it. you don't have to agree with me, and its obvious we would deal with things differently. nuff said.
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Re: False Hope
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 6:13 PMheya Munk-
i'm sorry for the crappy attitude the other day, it wasn't my day, that day. you are a good lady.
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 8:25 AMso im a cruel daddy
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Ozai, I honestly have no idea what type of parent you are. The cruel reference had nothing to do with your situation or with the type/dynamics of. I am talking about a relationship between lovers where one person leads another on intentionally, with malice and for their own personal gain.
Travis - I am also not applying that to what happened with you. Although I have never been where you are, I would hope that I would have the same compassion as you did. There would be no good reason to verbalize the negative and like you said "false hope gave us moments to laugh and pretend it would all work out" I could not agree with you more. The difference is that you both knew the truth.
Bobbi - I am glad you clarified :) I interpreted your op as to mean something totally different. In the case of the nursing home, I don't know if I would be comfortable doing what you had to do, either, but yeah, you probably did the right thing.
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 12:29 PMSavannah, i know you were not applying your statements to me. :) -
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Re: False Hope
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:19 AMOk, good, I did not think you would but just wanted to make sure!
:) and a big hug back to you! -
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Re: False Hope
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 2:34 PMyou can give me a call if you ever need a verbal hug:)
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 9:31 AMIt would seem that it totally depends on what the hope is related to. It's not good to lie to anyone, but in deserate situations, it might not be all bad to give a little hope where there really isn't any. Personally, I don't want to teh fluffy-ness of false hope. I prefer to hear the stright-up ugly truth of it all so I can plan accordingly.
If there's no hope of "you" ever falling in love w.me, then tell me so I can move one. If there's no hope that our plane will land safley and we all might die in the crash, tell me so I can make peace with my maker. If there's no hope that I'll have cake on my b-day, I'm ok with thinking that I might just for a little while. If there's no hope that the one that abandoned me will ever come back, I need to know.
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Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 1:12 PMmy uncle told my sick grandmother that there wasn't going to be a cure for her cancer (thus eliminating any sense of hope), and she died almost immediately. she didn't even wait for my mother to see her, even though that was her last wish.
uh.
that might be just a reflection of my grandmother's spirit, as well...
but i thought that perhaps if my uncle had shut his mouth, she might have believed that she could still fight it....?
uh.
and everyone know about the effect of placebos (or fake medicines)...
~~~
no false hope for other areas, please, especially when it comes to human relationships. -
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Unsu...
Re: False Hope
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 1:35 PMOn human relationships...So what if the person needing the hope is so far gone being spiritually sick because of all the damage and self destruction they caused to themself and to the significant other in the relationship. There is no love left,, only guilt, blame and hate but they can't let go...to let go would be to loose their will to live, only because they lived so long like this and they no no other way. They mistake all these dark and negitive things for love. They don't want to hear the truth, they only want to hear that the significant other wil love them and cant see that it will never happen. What if without this only hope, they become suicidal or just couldn't handle it. Would you give them false hope then in order for them to make a deal to help themself to get help in order to get better?
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